fox business network hosting a special called cyber wargame, tonight "cavuto" 11:00 p.m., fox business. david: cops firing tear gas into the crowd of protesters. >> more shootings and more violent. john: it's been more than a week but the conflict continues because of outside agitators. and it is the problem that cops now look like soldiers imax. >> police firing tear gas and when please space people that throw rocks or bottles were burning gasoline, what are they supposed to do enact. >> whenever they need to defend from these protesters. >> how do we keep the peace? that is our show tonight.
♪ ♪ >> now it is time for john stossel. john: what happened in ferguson is awful. several people shot, several hundred arrested. it's all terrible. do you remember the cincinnati riots 2001 enact 800 people were arrested. the los angeles riots after the rodney king beating, 16,000 arrested. sixty people killed. in seattle, 40,000 people protested world trade, some destroyed stores. 600 people were arrested. there's been lots of conflict in america, worse than what is happening in ferguson. the watts riot in los angeles is an example.
>> and it began after a violent confrontation between white police officers and a black family that led six days of violence and it took 34 lives. at the time politicians said this right happen because police lost control and they didn't have the equipment. in this program we discuss how government always grows and i've been reporting how the use of s.w.a.t. teams has grown not just in big cities but small towns like ferguson. one specialist who trained s.w.a.t. teams says that we been in ferguson this past week. and maybe some people there you had trained? >> there are people there that i have trained. john: what about this argument? you guys are part of the problem, you're over using this equipment and tech week. >> i think in the immediate case there's confusion between what
is s.w.a.t. equipment and public order equipment. i've not been there 24/7 but i've been there for different days. the vast majority of what you are seeing was it relates to public order, that sort of thing is actually not normally equated in a manner that it's being used to and the unique circumstance here and contrary to what some may believe, the issue of public disorder in the u.s. and the efforts of police put towards it is very rare. most officers will never stand a skirmish line as you aren't eating. >> this riot is smaller than most americans realize. >> i would say that the affected areas are about eight blocks long. during the day there is almost no one there and it would be very small compared to many others. john: dozen that invite someone to get mad?
>> i certainly can't put myself in the mind of someone who has that believe. but when you have disorder to the degree of buildings being burned, people being shot, a key part of plays into the issue of how officers reacted with the agencies do has been a sporadic play, unpredictable, largely unseen and i simply can't apologize for officers who are facing a legitimate effort to try to allow people that this has been flying at any moment. the response capabilities may be part of it. >> what do you teach in a situation like this? you have words like skirmish line and spike and wedge. >> whole concept of crowd control is preceded by what the actual event is itself in the minds of those who are there. what the people are doing directly affects what the police should do and will do.
if you have a peaceful protest or even just upset people, those who are not breaking the law, it's my opinion that we have an obligation to provide them a forum to do that. but the problem comes when personal property is either damaged or destroyed or people are getting assaulted and hurt. john: what are the police supposed to do? the make sense to have a shield. >> and make sense if you're going to stand there and allow them to continue to throw rocks. but it's more of a strategic process if you decide to let them hold the line, then you need to have a shield. if you want to deter them and make them stop doing that, there are various ways. tear gas is one and it may have a negative connotation and appearance that the one unique value is that it allows the cops to move people without having to go face-to-face which almost always ends up with a citizen getting hit with a police baton.
i'm confident that the reason that this is a more accurate term now is that is almost never used in american policing is because of the thing that law enforcement to do and it has such a connection that the vast majority have policy that says that they will never turned fire hoses on people unless they are burning. >> when i first met steve i was preparing the report of the increased use of s.w.a.t. teams. and every day s.w.a.t. teams crashing the homes with their guns drawn and often with lots of military equipment, it seems unnecessary and provocative to me. and nobody paid much attention to how heavily armed they were until the r me. and nobody paid much attention to how heavily armed they were until the riots. and now suddenly this is a big
deal. i think the fox as a law and order kind of lays but now i hear all kinds of skepticism about heavy police response. >> it doesn't seem to be well organized or well thought out. surrounding them with a dozen rifles and a crowd of civilians, this is a recipe for bad news. >> police with military gear firing protesters and arresting members of the media and that's one example of the increasing militarization of police all over the country. >> increasing in militarization and pushed by people like you. >> i don't think that would be accurate to say that i pushed it. i'm in advocate of equipping police officers. but the only thing that i'm seeing out there at this that is comparable to a military weapon would be the rifle itself. many are basically moving cover and i'm just at a loss with how
i heard argue that some should be put out in an environment where bullets are flying around and not take advantage of low resistance protection. i don't how to make that argument. john: since he defends most of what s.w.a.t. teams do, let's hear with someone who disagrees, saying that they're taking our freedom. more people do say that today, lots of people claim that america's police now go too far. >> we are entering the police state and people are very right to insinuate that militarizing it is not the right idea here. john: the author of the book called "police state usa" is on the cusp, she says of being a police state. the author is cheryl k. chumley. we are pretty free and america. to yes, we are, when you compare us to other nations around the world. but we are not pretty free when
you compare us to past generations. so if you look at the state of what is going on in america right now and in my book i chronicle 100 different cases were government has overreached constitutional liberties of americans, we are at the point now where a little girl can't run a lemonade stand without having someone come in and find her $50. we are at the point were elementary kids are having their irises scanned as they board the bus owned the name of safety. there could be a floodplain issue in a hundred years and this is the america where we are at. and so i'd like people to read my book and my research shows that we are on the cusp. >> there's more stuff for the police to enforce.
>> it's not just the police, if you look at ferguson and what has gone on there, you can certainly point to example after example where a case can be made and police have gone above and beyond what they are tasked to do. i look at ferguson and i look at what is going on with this. police executed a search warrant and when instances like this happen, we shouldn't be discussing it in a news studio but we should be protesting and go into our local boards of supervisors in saying that we don't are pleased to have this equipment or if they have it, we need to have it for her safety. >> you can cite safety and make a case to do anything. if you want them to be safe, fly an airplane overhead and dropped
some bombs? that is just ridiculous. but when certain things happen in one innocent americans die as i profile in my book, when things like that happen, that it's time to take action and i think that most police don't want that happening either. john: he died because someone was busting in his home and he pulled out a weapon and he was shot. so here is what one of america's noisiest political opportunist says about so much military equipment being given. >> if you have enough money to bring all that equipment in here, you have money for jobs for these young people. >> more government money, more entitlement spending. you have ferguson and issues that are taking place there and then you have the economy and job growth. those two things are different and they shouldn't be joined
together in that way. john: in israel where they deal with rioting by palestinian young people who often throw stones, the idea often shoots the person throwing the stone and they've killed 36 people since 2005. see you could say that america's police are restrained. >> israel is in an enclave where every nation doesn't recognize them as a right to exist. they want to why the israelis off the face of the map. i don't think that our local police want to wipe protesters off the map of america. there is a big difference there. john: and a new level of authority has been called and. >> the governor declaring a state of emergency calling in the national guard and it will be able to help restore order in
this community. >> as if they are magic in this case, the they seem to have helped. but what can they do that the police can't do? >> what is funny is if you look at the video of the national guard and it's really difficult to tell the difference between who is who and who is the civilian police officer paid by taxpayers to protect person foremost the citizen and so when you can't tell the difference between the soldier versus the police officer on the team, you have a problem. john: thank you, cheryl k. chumley. you can send a tweet or post on my webpage if you want to know more. and police sometimes did not
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>> we have to take care of the situation, that's what they said that they are going to keep doing. john: this is a shop owner whose store was looted. he saw happening on television and then he called the police and got the runaround. >> you guys are all away down the john: the cops would not comment. >> is it true that the police were standing down it was given as a command not the officers in danger. >> many shop owners are upset.
john: just a few miles away, gun sales are sharply up. >> yes, they are. 400%, they told us. >> what is people are buying weapons to shoot police officers. >> there is a big misconception on how people are buying firearms. many are law abiding citizens to go through strenuous background check and we are talking about five to 800-dollar firearms here. the majority of the people don't go through a background check.
>> that frightens a lot of people. look at some of these quotes from a conservative commentator here. does anybody think that things would be better in ferguson if the demonstrators were armed? >> i think that we are looking at it a little differently. i think that we are talking about people that are defending themselves against the rioters and looters. these are homeowners and residents who have quite frankly
been trapped with no protection of all. john: they see the guns are being used between 100,000 and 2 million times. it is a big range because i guess they don't know that it's not always reported. >> people are not just flashing fire arms around, trying not to stop crime or anything from happening, that's not what this is all about.
john: here are some statistics. more than 100 million americans now own guns. that's more than 100 million ever. 11 million have permits to kerry weapons, that's up from seven years ago. coming up, i think the best defense against that policing is a simple camera. and also just having it out here encourages people to behave.
but sometimes when people record police officers they get angry and arrest the person with the camera. unlimited cash back. let that phrase sit with you for a second. unlimited. as in, no limits on your hard-earned cash back. as in no more dealing with those rotating categories. the quicksilver card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. don't settle for anything less. i'll keep asking. what's in your wallet?
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>> what did happen in ferguson? that michael brown threatened threatened.officer? were to the officer kill an unarmed teenager? eyewitness testimony is imperfect. medical evidence gives clues but nothing definitive. if only the officer had warned a camera. then we would know what happened in the rioting might never have happened. a camera can make a big difference, but many police officers don't like them.
>> you are going away. you are under arrest. >> is one of many people who have been arrested and that is just wrong. we have the right to take pictures in america and that includes filming the police. we'll first convinced me of the benefits was a bicycle protest near the studio. the biker claimed that the police officer knocked me over and i was skeptical because i ride a bike and i have seen how aggressive my fellow bikers can get. and in this video turned up and showed that the officer was the aggressive one. so despite incriminating evidence like that, more officers support it. we welcome our next guests.
for this very reason, why does this happen? >> one of the things that i noticed is that we were handling approximately 77,000 incidents per year. we only had the ability to capture 22,000 of them because we had dashboard cameras and what we did not capture was the ability to interact outside of the police cars view. one of the major priorities going forward is that we owe that to our community and customers and we should be providing them the best service and in return we have to have a level of transparency. john: and as it turns out protection for yourselves as well. showing why it police need the cameras. >> the video shows them
approaching a man with a bloody face. the man is confused and combative. and the officer eventually tackle sam and handcuffed him. and so this protects police because someone might have accused him of letting his face? >> yes, correct, we have had excessive ores complaints or demeanor complaints were without the ability to video and audio record, it was a he said what she said. so this is an example that we immediately look at the video and it showed exactly what the officer saw and how he act as which of was in conformance with their policies and procedures. john: du mind wearing this thing? >> it might be the lightest thing that we do where. i don't mind at all.
>> do your fellow officers complained? >> all of the feedback that i've gone from them has been positive. it was hesitant at first for the same reason that citizens have been a part of this, but not all of this is captured. it's like reading the last page of a book and getting the conclusion but not getting the sequence of events that led up to it. >> this does capture the encounter with the cops, starting 30 seconds before and then you press this button twice and then it's on. >> our policy within our department is that and the entire that we have with the public is recorded. so there's measures that are in place now and if that isn't done it looked into by the internal
affairs. >> approximately there are about $400 for each unit in more than the $400 somehow. there are almost $200 billion worth. john: thank you chris and erin. coming up, we continue to debate the conflict in ferguson and we will cover a tax on libertarians. the next, our white cops racist or do we have race riots for another reason want to know how hard it can be... ...to breathe with copd? it can feel like this. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema.
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>> you think, oh, please don't stop me i hope the police don't stop me. john: i hope the police don't stop me. maybe that is why there has been writing and his death was just a tipping point. >> not just killing us, it's educational systems, if the prison system and so i think that it is systematic. >> there's a war on black boys in this country, a war on african-american men. john: a war? john mcwhorter has written several books on latin america. is there a war against black men? >> its theatrical and there's
not a war against lachman. but there is a serious problem. but you talk about my book. fifteen years ago i wondered why so many of my fellow black people seem to think that being black was as much of a burden as 1960 and i definitely didn't understand. i thought, racism deals like that thing in some gum sometimes. but there are the other people who lead lives similar to mine seem to feel that nothing has really changed. and the reason so many people are given the opportunity to see things like this is because of the real problem in the relationship between police forces and young black men and that is what creates this feeling. >> three reasons for that. the main reason that police end up floating black community so often, such that you have interactions that lead to incidents like the one that
murdered mike brown is the war on drugs and most people don't think of it that way. the simple fact of the matter is that if there are no war on drugs, the police would not have nearly as much reason to be in these neighborhoods and this is the part that is harder to talk about, but like most things it is true, if you are a young black man growing up in a community like that where the schools are bad and all sorts of things are bad, it's not exactly the hardest thing to jerk the wrong way. one wrong way that you can drift to sell drugs because they are illegal. you don't have to be a person to do that. if you couldn't do that because drugs were legal, then you wouldn't have so many black men drifting into that in the first place and therefore we would have a new racial situation in america and that is not rhetoric that simple and solid truth in the war on drugs is what makes drugs and it's what brings cops into these neighborhoods.
>> the equipment that the s.w.a.t. teams have is mostly being used for drug raids? >> that's right, if we didn't have a war on drugs or we wouldn't have to talk about this. it simply wouldn't be needed. john: the second reason is racism. there is some racism. >> yes, it's part of america and it's part of the black american past and present and it's part of the black american future and in particular you're talking about a situation where a white cop and a young black man are in some sort of clinched of a situation and certainly the racist sons at a black boy or man is more likely to be violent is going to come in to play and that's not fair but it's also true and frankly a lot of things that armchair are true. so what is important is that the reason that they feel this way
is not because of how white people spoke about slaves 200 years ago but we do have to create a disproportionate amount of homicides in this country and we can talk with the reasons are in the stereotype comes from something real. and unfortunately many police do have a reason to be suspicious but that doesn't mean that they should be killing people, however. but i lack a certain amount of faith. i don't know how training can address this. we kind of hit a wall which is really the same thing that we went through in florida last year. and really we have to make it so that these boys don't encounter these cops nearly as often and i don't think that we can exterminate the racism with editorials. but what we can do is get them out of the community. >> when you talk about race and people's reaction, is it just
skin color. i see these two kids wearing hoodies and their pants are low, if these are white kids i would be apprehensive looking at them and i look at the kids leaving catholic schools in new york city and i help some pay tuition. no one is afraid of these kids they have on eight crisp white shirt and they don't swagger or whatever the word is. >> the move. all that is not ideal. but what it is, a grand middle finger stuck up to authority and in particular when you talk about it, the genealogy is where you are not allowed to wear a belt and that is a kind of a jester of solidarity to black boys and black men. and now it started as that amounts just a matter of what is in the water, the way you pronounce things and the way to you happen to walk, it's part of the culture and i can guarantee
you that dressing in a way that is designed to say forget you to the world or to the man or to the cops is something that would either way if we had one generation of lack voice not growing up thinking of the cops as the enemy. john: thank you john mcwhorter. next, have we covered ferguson properly? and what it does "washington post" reporter do to make this post" reporter do to make this cop so matt?
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john: watching the protest, some have said that there is more media than protest. hundreds of journalists have come to ferguson. one was paul dietrich. you have covered other protests and this one was different. >> i think this one was different only because i think that the ferguson police department was not ready for this magnitude of a protest. they were not ready for the amount of people and how angry they would be.
i am from los angeles and we have had a ton of protests over the years and at least some honest 20 years we have had the rodney king riots and everybody remembers these riots just because it was so prevalent than it was in the news every day. and so they have taken precautions over the years to make sure that they know how to handle it and they know how to handle result is on the ground and plainclothes. cautious around an area and push protesters in the way that they should go. john: you sense the confusion among these police officers as they push you around? >> everything was quiet, it was right after they took security over to the highway patrol. but i sensed confusion in the idea that they are have information that they didn't give herriot on him name the
officer. >> they couldn't protect initially named him. and that left a vacuum for everyone else to put speculation and facts here and there. drove imports raise in cable news. john: there was a lot of antagonism between reporters and the police and mcdonald's is a popular hangout for the media because it has free wireless. at one point police entered mcdonald's and told them to get out. >> let's grab our stuff and go. let's go, move. let's move right now. >> that video was shot by a "washington post" reporter arrested after that and he said he and another reporter were roughed up.
>> cuba slammed into a door, i was thrown up into a fountain soda machine because we were not leading a private establishment and had the odd tasks need to videotape police officers. >> a bunch of activists who probably are really of noxious to police. who is right? >> well, people went publishing capabilities, which seems to be everyone these days and the ability to publish on the internet, they all have first amendment rights and it gets them into a tough situation when you are trying to control a protest. going through mcdonald's and getting rid of this seems crazy and it comes down to the militarization and there was nothing going on at the time. it was an attitude.
>> it is the mentality that they bring to the streets. they just go after reporters and clamp down on the first amendment right. john: on the other hand they have tough job and sometimes things are being thrown and bullets are flying. coming up next, my experience as a fake cop and why police officers are special. and my take on who is to blame for what happened. for what happened. we will have that so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are no branches? 24/7 it's just i'm a little reluctant to try new things. what's wrong with trying new things? feel that in your muscles? yeah... i do... try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates.
john: several days into the ferguson protest. we saw this headline in "the washington post." why are libertarians not talking about ferguson? they have warned for years that the government always grows. that includes the police. just last month i did ows. that includes the police. just last month i did a special about the militarization of police and for years the s.w.a.t. teams were only called out in a murder or robbery or in a situation where hostages were
taken. a frat house where there is said to be underage drinking, iowa police used this many armed men to raid a house where people are accused of credit card fraud. >> libertarians get accused of being turned away to about this. senator rand paul wrote a column entitled that we must demilitarize the police. just in a mosh condemned police for using military equipment.
>> let's list who is to blame. centuries of white people abusing the civil liberties have left many blacks resentful of police power and in recent years white cops shot on average two young black men every week, but none of that justifies the violent and the looting in ferguson. these are criminals and opportunists, cruelly violating the rights and property of innocent people.
peaceful protesters should not be lumped in with looters hurried police must distinguish between protesters and criminals and police officers are special and we give them, only the police, the legal right to use force on other americans. that power sometimes changes he's lost. i once ordered a fake police outfit over the internet demonstrate how you can imposter a police. i felt powerful and people on the street treated me with deference. officers have told me wearing a uniform can change you. if police must use their special power carefully and they do not have the right to execute a suspect unless there's no other way of stopping him and he poses an immediate threat to others. michael brown may well have been
dangerous. he weighed almost 300 pounds and even dangerous people have a right to be brought to trial and not shot six times. a source told fox news that officer wilson was beaten so severely that he was broken. if he beat him, that changes everything. but if it's true, why did the police not say that or two cops sometimes do feel threatened and they may be threatened and they still do not have the right is more porous than is necessary. and finally, the department of homeland security and politicians deserve some blame for encouraging cops even those in small towns to use military equipment. watching things like this, some say we go lighter than that in an actual war zone. they may begin to think like soldiers when they act like
soldiers and that makes violent confrontation more likely. that is john stossel for tonight. another new show this time next monday. meanwhile "the willis report" is next. gerri: welcome to "the willis report." i'm gerri willis. on the show tonight american airlines war against american families. the outrageous new fees that could double the cost of a flight. like they don't want us to fly. also, a new warning, the western drought could have a long-term impact on food prices. it is also pittings farmers against city dwellers. what would you pay for a bicycle? how about $20,000? "the willis report" where consumers are our business starts right now. gerri: we begin tonight with energy independence and energy security. those ideas front of mind tonight as this nation starts importing coal in